I'm not sure if you have been following this story, but for the past many months Amnon Yitzchak, through his 'Rabbinical advisory board' has been lambasting just about every Jewish musician and calling all Jewish music not kosher (it is a good thing I try very hard not to listen to Jewish music - saves a lot of problems). He produces a colourful multi-page parsha sheet each week, and at least one full page, and sometimes two, have been dedicated to pushing the agenda against Jewish music. He published photos of those singers and musicians who he doesn't approve of (which is basically everyone), he published 'ask the rabbi' pages dedicated to boycotting Jewish music, and he had 'haskamos' from Gedolim encouraging his ban (including Rav Elyashiv's signature, despite the fact that Rav Elyashiv doesn't actually support Amnon Yitzchak).
When someone gets this crazy about something, it is clear (unfortunately) that there is a money angle somewhere. I have been waiting each week for the 'kickback'. Well, this week all was explained.
He has launched his own 'hechsher' for music. If you agree to abide by their impossible conditions (literally impossible - you have to agree to listen to whatever they say, even if they say that right is left and left is right) and not have anything to do with any non-kosher musicians, and live a Jewish life, and submit all lyrics and music to their committee for checking, and many other conditions - then they will give you a hechsher for your music. - Oh, did I forget to mention that you also have to give them a 15,000 shekel deposit which they will keep in the event that you don't fulfil any of their conditions.
You can read the terms and conditions here (on page 7) if you read Hebrew.
(The link seems to be unavailable at the moment. I'm not sure if they have removed it from the website, or if they are just updating the website)
If you just want to look at some more photos of forbidden musicians have a look on page 6 for a 'rogues gallery' of 15 singers (including someone called "Klippy Shmeltzer" - perhaps he is related to Flipper).
Unfortunately the best way for Chareidim to make money is to ban something, then charge for the kosher alternative. We have seen this so many times over the past few years, it is quite sickening. Still, at least they don't have to leave Yeshiva and get a job!
The only question remaining, is whether anyone will pay any attention to this hechsher at all. Will it cover the costs of any libel suits if any of the 'banned' singers decide to try to stop his campaign?
As we learnt from the New Zealand anti-shechita campaign - always look for the money. That always explains the real truth behind things.
David Sedley's Thoughts and Musings (and some audio shiurim too)
Showing posts with label ban. Show all posts
Showing posts with label ban. Show all posts
Monday, November 29, 2010
Sunday, July 25, 2010
Kosher music
I know that this is not new news, but I actually just saw this hechsher today.
It seems that the main source for his opinions is not the Talmud or Shulchan Aruch, but American Preachers. (Though I can't even find a source for his claim that the saxophone was referred to as the "Devil's Flute" in the '20s)
The best line is that "the use of 2-4 music, and other rock and disco beats is forbidden." Well, I suppose it is Waltzes all the way from now on! And no swaying to the music!
Rabbi Akiva says:
ר' עקיבא אומר המנענע קולו בשיר השירים בבית המשתה ועושה אותו כמין זמר אין לו חלק לעולם הבא (תוספתא סנהדרין יב, ה"י)
(loose translation)
Anyone who sings Shir HaShirim at a wedding and makes it into a tune has not portion in the World to Come? (Tosefta 12:10)
(I know that perhaps it doesn't mean wedding, but pub (see my previous post), and I know that some want to say it only applies to Shir HaShirim - but what other source is there for a ban if not this?)
So either everything is permitted, or everything is forbidden. Who authorised Rabbi Luft to give a hechsher to any music?
So, if we are all doomed anyway, let's go out in style:
Primus - The Devil Went Down To Georgia
Uploaded by Dan_of_the_Land. - News videos hot off the press.
(Do not listen to this if you don't like Devil's music - it has a rock beat in 4/4)
Where was everyone when they were banning alcohol?
According to the Jerusalem Post the Knesset has unanimously passed a law banning the sale of alcohol at night.
A few comments:
There are 120 MKs in the Knesset. That means that 82 of them were down at the pub while the vote was taken (or were still hungover from the night before). Why don't their votes count? (My friend suggested that they counted fingers and toes, so actually it was only the Prime Minister and most of one of the Arab MKs)
But more seriously - having lived in both Scotland (where there is no closing time) and England (where there is) I can attest to the fact that there are far fewer fights in Scotland after 11 pm. This is mostly because the Scots are such nice people (and it is hard to fight in a kilt), but also because when they come out of the pub looking for a fight there is nobody else on the streets because everyone is still down the boozer!
I think that alcohol is becoming a real problem in Israel - amongst all segments of society. But I'm not convinced that this is the correct solution. Especially if 2/3 of the MKs can't even be bothered showing up for a vote on a major social issue.
L'Chaim
By a unanimous vote of 38- 0, MKs outlawed the sale of alcohol at stores between the hours of 11 p.m. and 6 a.m.
Restaurants and pubs are not covered by the legislation, but kiosks, gas station convenience stores, markets and pharmacies will be subject to the prohibition, with violators facing a minimum penalty of NIS 9,000.
The law also allows police to seize alcohol being consumed in public and pour out the contents of the bottles.
A few comments:
There are 120 MKs in the Knesset. That means that 82 of them were down at the pub while the vote was taken (or were still hungover from the night before). Why don't their votes count? (My friend suggested that they counted fingers and toes, so actually it was only the Prime Minister and most of one of the Arab MKs)
But more seriously - having lived in both Scotland (where there is no closing time) and England (where there is) I can attest to the fact that there are far fewer fights in Scotland after 11 pm. This is mostly because the Scots are such nice people (and it is hard to fight in a kilt), but also because when they come out of the pub looking for a fight there is nobody else on the streets because everyone is still down the boozer!
I think that alcohol is becoming a real problem in Israel - amongst all segments of society. But I'm not convinced that this is the correct solution. Especially if 2/3 of the MKs can't even be bothered showing up for a vote on a major social issue.
L'Chaim
Monday, August 20, 2007
Gedolim and the music ban
Yesterday someone got very cross with me and accused me of not listening to the Gedolim. I wanted to use this blog to clarify, to him and to the world, that of course I listen to the Gedolim, and have the utmost respect for them and their Torah knowledge and opinions. I have heard stories and had first hand experiences that leave me in no doubt as to the greatness of the Gedolim.
However, I am equally sure that the banning of the Shwekey/Friend concert did not come from the Gedolim.
I know that the ban did not originate with the Gedolim because the Talmud says many times 'chasa al mamon yisrael'. The Torah always considers money of Israel. If there is a way of permitting something, even b'dieved, it won't be considered forbidden if it would involve great financial loss.
There have been many 'Jewish' concerts in the past, which were similar to the most recent one. If the Gedolim were concerned with this concert, they would have spoken to the organisers and performers from the very beginning, and discussed with them whether there are permissible ways of doing it or not. Had they done that I'm sure that everyone would have complied with their wishes.
However, to ban a concert less than a week before it is scheduled to take place, to cause huge loss to the organisers, performers and ticket holders - that is not the way of the Gedolim. So I am sure the ban did not originate with them.
When a Rabbi issues a p'sak Halacha (unless it is a personal p'sak to an individual, in which case they may or may not) they always explain the reasons and sources for their ruling. This is obviously necessary so that people can understand exactly what is being said, and so that they (or their Rabbis) can study the ruling, to know exactly to whom, when and where it applies. Additionally, a ruling may contradict a different ruling from another Gadol, and my local posek has to be able to evaluate and compare the rulings.
In the case of this ban, the best I could find was:
This is not a p'sak Halacha, but a meaningless statement. Nobody even knows why it is forbidden. I have heard at least 4 different possible reasons as to why the concert was forbidden, none of which seem to me to be compelling, but even if they were, how do I know which is the real reason? Perhaps all recorded music is now forbidden? Perhaps wedding bands are now forbidden? Perhaps leaving the Beis Midrash is forbidden? Perhaps all separate sex events are forbidden? I don't know.
It is inconceivable that a Gadol would ban something without saying what they are banning and why. If they don't say what the issue is, how could we follow their ruling to avoid it? We don't know what we are avoiding!
Therefore I am sure that the ban did not come from the Gedolim.
How can it be that people do and say things in the name of the Gedolim? I don't know. In this particular case, though, I don't think the printers even bothered printing the signatures of the Gedolim. They just stated that it came from them. And if they had printed signatures it would not have had any more meaning. Everyone knows that the signatures are on file, and are not a true indication that the document was signed by the Gedolim listed.
If there were such a p'sak it would require another blog to discuss the system of halacha, the limits of lo tassur and the individualistion of halachic ruling. It may or may not apply to the kinds of people who were asking me whether they were permitted to go to the concert or not. But since I am sure that this ruling did not come from the Gedolim I challenge anyone who mocks our Gedolim based on this p'sak.
The Gedolim are the Gedolim and deservedly so. The printers and zealots are just that. There is no obligation to listen to their words. But don't mock the Gedolim.
However, I am equally sure that the banning of the Shwekey/Friend concert did not come from the Gedolim.
I know that the ban did not originate with the Gedolim because the Talmud says many times 'chasa al mamon yisrael'. The Torah always considers money of Israel. If there is a way of permitting something, even b'dieved, it won't be considered forbidden if it would involve great financial loss.
There have been many 'Jewish' concerts in the past, which were similar to the most recent one. If the Gedolim were concerned with this concert, they would have spoken to the organisers and performers from the very beginning, and discussed with them whether there are permissible ways of doing it or not. Had they done that I'm sure that everyone would have complied with their wishes.
However, to ban a concert less than a week before it is scheduled to take place, to cause huge loss to the organisers, performers and ticket holders - that is not the way of the Gedolim. So I am sure the ban did not originate with them.
When a Rabbi issues a p'sak Halacha (unless it is a personal p'sak to an individual, in which case they may or may not) they always explain the reasons and sources for their ruling. This is obviously necessary so that people can understand exactly what is being said, and so that they (or their Rabbis) can study the ruling, to know exactly to whom, when and where it applies. Additionally, a ruling may contradict a different ruling from another Gadol, and my local posek has to be able to evaluate and compare the rulings.
In the case of this ban, the best I could find was:
"We trembled at hearing about the terrible breach in our camp of 'music evenings' and 'concerts' in which musicians sing before men and women sitting together, Heaven forefend, and even not together. All Torah leaders have in the past clearly forbidden these events, even when men and women are separate."
This is not a p'sak Halacha, but a meaningless statement. Nobody even knows why it is forbidden. I have heard at least 4 different possible reasons as to why the concert was forbidden, none of which seem to me to be compelling, but even if they were, how do I know which is the real reason? Perhaps all recorded music is now forbidden? Perhaps wedding bands are now forbidden? Perhaps leaving the Beis Midrash is forbidden? Perhaps all separate sex events are forbidden? I don't know.
It is inconceivable that a Gadol would ban something without saying what they are banning and why. If they don't say what the issue is, how could we follow their ruling to avoid it? We don't know what we are avoiding!
Therefore I am sure that the ban did not come from the Gedolim.
How can it be that people do and say things in the name of the Gedolim? I don't know. In this particular case, though, I don't think the printers even bothered printing the signatures of the Gedolim. They just stated that it came from them. And if they had printed signatures it would not have had any more meaning. Everyone knows that the signatures are on file, and are not a true indication that the document was signed by the Gedolim listed.
If there were such a p'sak it would require another blog to discuss the system of halacha, the limits of lo tassur and the individualistion of halachic ruling. It may or may not apply to the kinds of people who were asking me whether they were permitted to go to the concert or not. But since I am sure that this ruling did not come from the Gedolim I challenge anyone who mocks our Gedolim based on this p'sak.
The Gedolim are the Gedolim and deservedly so. The printers and zealots are just that. There is no obligation to listen to their words. But don't mock the Gedolim.
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